As you may have noticed in reading my blog articles I like controversial subjects, especially concerning man's ideas about God. So, here is another one to ponder.
All too often I have heard it said from ministers or Christians something as follows, "I am going to Lead (Or Bring) that person(s) (Or someone) to Christ/Jesus." In my opinion, such a statement is a total misunderstanding, even if a well intentioned one, of what is Not being referred to in the Old and New Testament of the Bible or much other Christian literature. To say such things is truly arrogant and prideful and contrary to the truth of God.
Even the terms, "To Bring" or "To Witness" as it is used in most Christian religion is of the same sort of misrepresentation of truth. You can study the Holy Scriptures from front to back and never find statements like these. But, you will find (If permitted by God) to read and understand much said about "Following, going or changing (Repenting)". You will find "Preaching, carrying or teaching." You will even find "Choosing" (Read my last article, but choosing only in context with a spiritual and direct spoken word from God Himself and not by human mental choice alone).
Leading is done only by God Himself by means of His Holy Spirit and the physical manifestation 2000 years ago of His New Adam (The Son of God named Jesus). Other than these there is no other way to "Lead" or even follow God to good effect. People are merely used by Him for His own Pleasure and His own Purpose. If we speak or act or even think as living beings everything is due to Him alone.
We are so confused by the lies we have been told and accept that only God can break us free. Yet, our human nature will fight to the death to discard those lies. And anyone, including me can be and is infected with lies. In fact we are liars (And worse), but we would rather die than change our thoughts about that (And we will die before we change them). That is harsh truth also. But, also very good news once accepted.
When a person "Hears" God (And not only by using their natural hearing) then they will begin to know God. Following that experience we will respond to the ideas and can make real choices and changes. A person then wills to convey, and other people willing to hear will accept truth. Both parties then become observer-experiencing persons (Or Witness's) of what God says or does. We are not able to go out like little god like beings to convert or change anyone at all. No, we do things already pre-destined of God's and by God's power alone. Sometimes against our will or our personal choice, but we will do it eventually anyway His way. And that also is very good news! Why? because we are evil and cannot obey or find God on our own in any way. He must choose (The one and only choice available to us really). As a great man once said, "God make me a channel of Yours" (Read Saint Francis of Assisi). Well, I could go on but time limits me now. But please post your comments because I also as Michelangelo once said when 92 years old, "I am still learning".
I agree with you on your first point regarding "leading". Since we are all individuals isn't it likely that there are individual roads leading to the same source? Therefore someone else's experience or understanding can be different than our own, but can still lead to the same direction. I can hear someone else's experience and appreciate it, and even learn faster from that, but usually need to travel my own path in order to feel the experience. So isn't it just possible that our spiritual experiences may all be different, leading us to the same place and that we all add something to this learning experience.
ReplyDeleteI do not feel that we are all evil. We are capable of doing evil things, but if we were made in God's image, we cannot BE evil. Just look at a newborn baby sometime, and you would see the innocent. It's the experiences, influences and choices that draw the human experience to or from God. No offense, but sometimes reading your blog I get the feeling that you are portraying God to be some kind of control freak. That wouldn't be good news to me! I believe (and realize I could be wrong since beliefs are only beliefs) that God wants us to grow in his image of love. To pursue peace. To allow variety and color to the human experience. To grow into maturity as we age and get ready for our new experience, and to be humble enough to look for his direction and love. I enjoy reading your writing, even if I do not agree with some of your points. Still, I appreciate it. It seems in replying that I am learning much.
Thank you for your very insightful comments! I shal try to briefly summarize on them.
ReplyDeleteFirst,concerning the fact that humans are evil by nature, the original sin (faulty action) by Adam and Eve brought a consequence or curse placed upon all creation (Not only people) by God AFTER they disobeyed a direct command. So, in a way of speaking, God is a kind of "Control freak" (Although I personally do not like that term). God is in control nevertheless and ONLY God is good. Therefore, God creates whatever He chooses to BE good. God did make mankind(Adam and Eve only) and they and all other of His original creations WERE once upon a time good long ago. But since the disobedience by Adam and Eve, we all are cursed PHYSICALLY with an evil nature. Innocence was lost in the Garden of Eden. Since then all is flawed by evil, and not only because of God's decree long ago, but also because the first people stole knowledge of good and evil. God never intended us to possess such knowledge because He knew it would lead us to decay and death. And it has since that time even if it seems slow to us. What one sees in a newborn is not innocence, but life and wonder at life. Anything else seen is a projection of and by the observer based upon personal or cultural beliefs (And those are based upon misconceptions of truth).
It would take a book to explain about your many very good points and I may go that way sometime. But there is already the greatest Holy Book available already, the Bible. The study and search for truth about this and many other topics I write all begin from there. Not by my choice or anyone's. It is My decision, but God's choice. He says that we are evil, not me. But, there is good news! God can change us away from evil to good if and only if we obey. (Not our choice, but our decision to act). But, we will never be perfect until we become like Jesus Christ. And only God knows who and when that will be for anyone or anything.
Yes, I believe that we are all on the path to learning how to be more like Jesus Christ, if we are open to learning those ways. The Holy Bible is an excellent resource for learning how to live life, and not only living life, but what will come after life. Still, it can be interpreted and has been interpreted many ways. I do not see Adam and Eve the way you do or interpret it the way you do. That doesn't make either of our interpretations a known fact. Were either of us there when God discovered Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of knowledge? Did we know exactly what was said by God? Only what the Bible states. I do not see anything written stating that God actually cursed people with evilness. All my life I have seen pictures of Eve tempting Adam with an apple! The Bible doesn't even state that it was an apple. It could have been a banana or orange for that matter! People are always taking their own concepts and making them out to be facts.
ReplyDeleteIf it helps you to think of us all as evil, then so be it. I personally believe that God wiped our slate clean and though we can and are capable of making decisions to do good or evil at any given moment, we can choose to STAY good as God's precious children. There are a few problems with thinking of people as evil or having an evil nature. First, it's extremely negative thinking and not Christlike at all. Second, it gives a person an OUT (for instance: Oh, I am just so evil, I couldn't help myself.) It is much more positive, and more work to know that you are loved and perfect in God's eyes, and work to stay that way. I agree that the work entails a lot of learning to be more like Jesus, because we are not perfect in that sense. The only way I see to do that is to separate your who from your do. If we want to be more like Jesus we need to constantly be appraising ourselves and asking ourselves what He would do in each situation. Would Jesus be telling himself that He is evil and that all people are evil and have such an evil nature? From what I read, Jesus saw the good in everyone.
Thank you for your comments!
DeleteSome scriptures to read as food for thought are:
Genesis 6:5;8:21, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Psalm 14:1-3, Isiah 1:16-17;9:17, Matthew 7:11;12:39 and Romans 7:14-25.
There is a difference of Being and Doing evil. And Jesus Christ is that difference.
Your comments have been very thought-provoking for me. Thank you for being a substance that has directed my thought focus to God. However we come by these realizations, the important thing is belief in God and Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteI went over these Bible scriptures that you mentioned, and granted, it is true that evil is mentioned. However, I do not see how God cursed all people to be evil in the Garden of Eden, and then when men began to multiply, God was surprised and grieved at seeing that men had evil thoughts. That doesn't make sense. If He cursed all people to be evil, then why would He then be grieved that they were as He had cursed? They would have just been what He made them to be. My thought is that God gave us free will, and was grieved in the first place in the Garden of Eden when the knowledge of evil was discovered by man. (and woman.) That since then God has been wanting us to let go of those evil ways and to love Him. He has given us all kinds of chances, and yes we are human, we are not God, and those choices that are put before us can be difficult in our humanness. That's why we need Jesus Christ. The supreme example of love. The Prince of Peace.
Honestly, when I read the Bible, I do not concentrate on the evilness, I concentrate on the explanations of faith, hope and love. Because that is what I need to learn and be.
Thank you for your comments!
DeleteActually God placed a curse on the ground, not on Adam and Eve. But, later another curse was placed on Cain, their Son to be a wanderer on Earth. And that he could be killed. Mankind was not cursed to BE evil, but since they had the knowledge of good and evil they could use their will to DO good or evil. It is interesting to note that since God is all knowing that He knew that Adam and Eve could (Or possibly would) give in to the temptation. That would mean that as many other scriptures say, that God had a plan before thw World began and knew all that would happen beforehand. If so, it explains the need for Jesus Christ entering the World to mediate between the realms of good and evil, mankind and God to create the perfect being(s) through and by Jesus Christ. This is my opinion as it explains much of the difficult passages in the Bible. If death was the result of disobedience to God (Doing), then eternal life is the result Jesus Christ's obedience to God (Also doing). Since Jesus Christ is the visable image of The invisable God, then BEING good is in the realm of the Spiritual, not physical (Except with Christ). Faith, hope and love are "Fruits" (Manifestations) of the Spiritual into the physical of The Holy Spirit, not by mankind's efforts. Jesus is not just a perfect example, but He is the NEW and perfect Man/God (Son of God). Those chosen by God shall become like Him in the new Image and Likeness on that Day of resurection. Now we are like the worm that turns into a Butterfly, we are in a kind of Metamorphosis so to speak. We are being transformed, but we are still in the cocoon. Yet, we are evolving toward full BEING in and with God if He chooses us to be. Again the choice is God's, not ours.
Keep seeking! I love your Melancholy positive temperament traits!
Thank you for explaining your thoughts! I liked it. When you have an opportunity, please post more blogs. I am enjoying the thinking and direction of focus.
ReplyDelete